Not happy with PGL Regina tourney, feel cheated of my money

[Epikon]

Just thought I would let everyone know how PGL handles things. You may have remembered this thread ... http://www.forum.progamingleague.ca/showthread.php?t=3&page=4 ...

This shows the prize layout as follows ...

Payouts:
4vs4
1-$2200
2-$1200
3-$500
4- Free entry into another online or LAN tourney

You should note it mentions nothing of the prizes changing except they may double.

Well my team (TAC) placed 4th and after PMing PGL inquiring about the free entry I was meet with this response.


No it wont be free entry this time for placing 4th but eventually we will let all our higher placed PROS enter for free

I then pointed out the thread detailing the prize structure and was meet with this reply...


lol nah of course i want you to come, we changed the prize amounts as well..... remember it was kindof a Beta tournament so we had to see our numbers before....... for the next one we will get more teams so we can give away more, this was all able to change........ as for the rule of substitutions if the other team solely agrees that a sub can be put in then its possible..... if you guys say no dice and couldnt work out an agreement then they would have to forfeit..... this will never happen again though, there will never ever be able to be subs

So how can they change the prizes without telling anyone? Especially taking away prizes? That was advertised on the forums. You can't just say after the tournament is said and done, oh by the way only first gets money.

The second part of his pm deals with the blatant breaking of rule number 2 of the "official rules". Here is the second rule for reference...


All players and teams must tentatively make their matches, if players
are not present the team must forfeit the games they miss in their
allotted time slots

They allowed Tiki's team to sub in one of their own PGL players to continue to play in the tournament when one of their members didn't show. (Not mad at you Tiki or anyone on your team, just pointing out what?s going on) As his pm said we could have denied to let the sub play. However we were never asked or informed about this in any way at the tournament.

Sorry for having to bring this up on the forums. I tried sorting it out in pms, but PGL has stopped replying to my pms so all I got left is to post my story. If they delete this post I guess I will know they are just screwing us over.

I think even if this does get straightened out TAC may not attend another PGL, I for sure will not pay to enter the stoon tournament, which sucks, I had lots of fun up till all this and would have loved a chance to try and do better.

[Tiki]

no offense here.. but wait, screwing you over?

are you aware of the situation that PGL was in? their boxes and tvs were held up, and kyle had to fork out money from his pocket to supply us with TV's.... of course there is going to be setbacks. I know you may feel ripped off at this point, but have a little understanding on their situation as well... and i'm sure he's not ignoring your PM's, he does have just more than your conversation going on.

[PGL]

Ummm ok I have not stopped replying to PMs I have been on this thing all day....... also look at it this way as well, I told we could double the money if enough teams registered that would mean we would need about 60 teams total to cover.........

Also it is a first time event, we have no idea how many people will show and how many wont......... this is why it was called BETA......

As for your team you guys were right there and I said "you can talk with them and sort things out but if you say no way.... then they will have to forfiet..... we gave you guys that chance......

Money------ tournament structure for payout changed a little but I also had to payout singles...... THE ONLY THING I TRUELY GAURENTEED WAS GIVING AWAY $5000....

With everything said and done and me booking the next 3 tournaments I am out right around $40000......


So look at it this way, if i dont give out a few prizes you can kinda see why...... I am running with a HUGE debt here

[PGL]

Also I once again checked my PMs and you still have not send me more than 2 pms of which I have responded to already......

I was talking to 2 team members of TAC and said if you guys cant agree on anything then Tiki's team would have to forfeit

[RoYaL1&2]

Kyle you are officially my hero. 40G's in debt for us. AWW

It's people like you that deserve to play Jesus in a game of Halo.

[Epikon]

We were never asked if they could sub somone... Do you even know who TAC was? We went for lunch and when we got back got told we were up. No mention of a sub at all. Anyways that not even really why we are mad, that just adds to it.

The main point is you can't run a buisness saying you will give away prizes and then not do so, why should we be understanding of that.

Its just free entry for 4v4s.. if you would have gave it to us you would have got two sets of 2v2 sign ups from our team, now we have no reason to want to go.

[ridersaddiction]

I'm sorry you feel cheated but not to be rude but you didn't get 4th solely. Also that post was made when we thought the tourny would have pools so it would be easier to figure out who got what place.

How double elimination is set up doesn't make it so a few teams hold each place, 4th, 5th etc, only 1st,2nd and 3rd are known for sure. Plus PGL said that $5000 would be given away and more than that was given away because he payed out to FFA also.

PGL is also on XBL at the moment so that's probably why he isn't responding. We have also been having bigger issues with others. He did also let you go and get subway and it took your team over and hour to get it holding up the tournament in the process. I know for a fact this bugged a few people but nothing was send cause in the end we just want people to have fun and no stupid drama.

The Rules for subs will be laid out better for the Saskatoon, which will be posted in the next few days. You have to understand that this was the first tourny and we learned a lot about what needs to be done to make it better.

[Tiki]

Also, if we're gonna throw out the fact of not following rules, we waited for you for at least 20 mins to start the LB finals as well.

[PGL]

OK team TAC here is what I will tell you guys...... I know you guys are mad because Tikis team had a sub......... Travich was sick and couldnt make it......

team TAC asked me if they could grab something to eat, I said sure but be back before this game is over......... Tikis team waited at least a half hour for you guys to come back so you should have had to forfeit anyway...... thus you guys broke the first rule because the team Tiki played before allowed for a sub....

So if anyone should be complaining it should be Tiki for having to wait and still allow you to play after missing your gametime, such as you already stated

All players and teams must tentatively make their matches, if players
are not present the team must forfeit the games they miss in their
allotted time slots

[SReid]

hey epikon are team got elminated the round before you two we thought that was really lame that tiki team didnt have to forfit. but other than that the tounrey was awesome and this was there first one so don't complain to much they did a great job.

[saskbb]

We were never asked if they could sub somone... Do you even know who TAC was? We went for lunch and when we got back got told we were up. No mention of a sub at all. Anyways that not even really why we are mad, that just adds to it.

The main point is you can't run a buisness saying you will give away prizes and then not do so, why should we be understanding of that.

Its just free entry for 4v4s.. if you would have gave it to us you would have got two sets of 2v2 sign ups from our team, now we have no reason to want to go.

After hearing and knowing first hand how much of a bath Kyle took on this event I can't believe how cheap some people are. Epikon I will sent you $30 (the amount to cover your fee)! PM me with your mailing address and I'll send you your money!

Some people are so cheap. If Klye PM's and comfirms you were 4th I will be happy to support the PLG because I think Kyle is starting something good here and believe in building things up instead of tearing things down. I build a successful business by having a supportive view on life!

[Epikon]

The main issue is we are a customer of PGL, we paid expecting that if we placed 1-4th you win something as outlined in the prize details. We get 4th our teams pretty happy as we did much better then expected, everyone including Simply is like well at least you got free entry next tourney. Then next day you get told "Prizes change" and to bad, no sorry, no nothing.

Maybe at the tourney Kyle should have approached us and explained his situation to us. Something instead of ignoring it and hoping we don't notice. Very unprofessional, especially if there was no announcement that the prizes had changed before the tournament, how hard would that have been??


OK team TAC here is what I will tell you guys...... I know you guys are mad because Tikis team had a sub......... Travich was sick and couldnt make it......

team TAC asked me if they could grab something to eat, I said sure but be back before this game is over......... Tikis team waited at least a half hour for you guys to come back so you should have had to forfeit anyway...... thus you guys broke the first rule because the team Tiki played before allowed for a sub....

So if anyone should be complaining it should be Tiki for having to wait and still allow you to play after missing your gametime, such as you already stated

All players and teams must tentatively make their matches, if players
are not present the team must forfeit the games they miss in their
allotted time slots

Once again not the main reason we are upset, even if you DQed us we still placed 4th. Also if tiki ‘s team would have got DQed rightfully to Button mashers would have faced us, then we would have DQed against them placing 4th still and putting Button mashers 3rd.


I'm sorry you feel cheated but not to be rude but you didn't get 4th solely. Also that post was made when we thought the tourny would have pools so it would be easier to figure out who got what place.

How double elimination is set up doesn't make it so a few teams hold each place, 4th, 5th etc, only 1st,2nd and 3rd are known for sure. Plus PGL said that $5000 would be given away and more than that was given away because he payed out to FFA also.


Thank you for the sorry, the first time we have actually heard that. However I think you should check with Kyle because I'm not sure you know how your own tournament works. 1st - 4th are known. Also if you say 4th gets a prize you should make sure you actually know who places 4th.


In the end like Saskbb said it’s just an entry fee, and its sad other customers are more willing to step up and make us feel not ripped off. PGL is a business, we are customers. I think the people running this thing should maybe take a couple entry level business classes and learn that few dissatisfied customers cost a company a lot more money then just letting them have the prize you ADVERTISED on your own website.

Just some quick math… Give us free entry to 4v4 .. make 160 dollars off our 2v2 entries. Customer happy, not feeling ripped off, build good rep because PGL owned up to their mistake. Attend future events.

Not give us free entry, loss of 160 dollars from doubles, bad reputation from word of mouth after only one tournament. Loss of fees from other teams who may have been on the fence about PGL? You can’t put a number on this but seeing as your already down 160 dollars I don’t see how this is a hard choice.

How hard would it have been to say sorry that shouldn’t have been a prize but it’s on the website we messed up, here is the free entry fee, or take half off next tourney, or take this t-shirt, or take this apology, or anything other then saying prizes change(with no notice) after hoping we wouldn’t notice.

[PGL]

Epikon you gotta try to cut us a little slack..... the morning of the tournament we had to run around the city and buy $15000 worth of TV's....... we were rushed and because of this some things were overlooked........

Also a lot of people were entering their team the day of the 4v4 and we never accounted for that as well, it tough doing a first event and I know you guys are a little mad but what you guys should have done is approached me AT the event with these concerns rather than on the forum....... at the event I probably could've worked something out for the next event....... but instead you did it over the forums to nark on it......

as for business we all have very much taken business classes and know a lot of how business is run.... one of us is graduated Engineer, 2 are finishing up Engineering and the fourth is finishing up his Business degree.........

If its really a huge deal I'll work something out from you via PM's......

[Tiki]

hold on. button mashers was given a choice about a sub. they agreed to having heresjonny. you guys were late for our final. we shouldn't have been DQ'd against BM if they agreed. and on friday kyle made it pretty clear to us that it was just free entry for 1st place, that the situation was a bit tight and the prizes were a bit different than on the site.

[ridersaddiction]

Thank you for the sorry, the first time we have actually heard that. However I think you should check with Kyle because I'm not sure you know how your own tournament works. 1st - 4th are known. Also if you say 4th gets a prize you should make sure you actually know who places 4th.

I noticed you didn't quote the part i mentioned about how the tounry was originally going to be set up into pools and was the change to double elimination, which gave more teams a better chance to win money. I'll be posting the exact standing of each team later this week when i get a chance to go through the board i'll show you where you stood in the full picture.

Also it was mentioned on the forums that both FFA and 2v2 will be at the trouny which will change the payout system.

[Apocalypto]

OK heres the deal cause i will tie myself into this company anyday, Kyle, Johnny, and the rest of the crew are breaking the bank to make this happen for everyone,

so heres what i will do if its ok with Kyle i will pay for ur team
registration for S'toon, but if u post one more the deals off and im sure PGL will not have to wrry about one team leaving cause there a bunch of cry babies over this,

u dont see me crying cause the map settings were wrong in ffa and cause of that i didnt make the finals. And as what everyone has been tryign to tell u, this tourny was a BETA!!!

So lets all be happy with what we have, each other, and a group of guys willing to go into serious debt to make us happy, thats the thing i dotn think u fully understand or if ur not happy with paying for registration i will down the road donate money so that kyle can have bigger prize pools including down to 5th place

[Tiki]

apoc, theres no need to turn this thread into an argument, the namecalling and stuff should definitely be left out of this one.

[saskbb]

Apocalypto,

Put me down for 1/2. I agree please stop posting neg. because we will cover this over site, error, or whatever you want to call this issue. It is easy to find neg. in anything! But i would love to see everyone who had a good time post that as well.

PGL isn't a bussiness, it Kyle and a few buds puting on events for fun. I'm a financial advisor I would not recoomend any of my client's buy shares (if they have any) in PGL.

I support PGL because I think Kyle is doing a good thing! When I was there Sat I seen alot of nice kids having a good time. My 10 year old and his buddy included.

I wonder if anyone from this event went to their local storys, were they buy there games and told them how cool this event was and would love to see them sponor an event. My bet is NO, because people are more interested in looking what is in this for me instead what can I do to see this these event grow! and God forbid that someone successed at soming in Sask!

[SReid]

hold on. button mashers was given a choice about a sub. they agreed to having heresjonny. you guys were late for our final. we shouldn't have been DQ'd against BM if they agreed. and on friday kyle made it pretty clear to us that it was just free entry for 1st place, that the situation was a bit tight and the prizes were a bit different than on the site.

actually we did all we could to have you DQ but we were forced into playing you guys. anyway besides the point the tounrys over you didnt get free entry but the games you got to play were a blast and i dont think payn 30 bucks is a big deal. just get ready for saskatoon

[Apocalypto]

Im not turning this into an arguement im just sayin that its 30 bucks man thats the end of it from me im not gonna be causing anymore arguements

[.MeThoD]

Good because you always do...your a bad person.

[Apocalypto]

Haha shut up eric lol
u love me

[IbLIeXhale]

Where is this does it say that fourth place gets free entry to the next pgl event my understanding is it was a free online tournament.. so give up quit fighting about it.

[Urban Fighter]

It was all subject to change... and if he changed it and gave you money for 4th then you would not complain... Just roll with it i guess.

[Urban Fighter]

Where is this does it say that fourth place gets free entry to the next pgl event my understanding is it was a free online tournament.. so give up quit fighting about it.

I think it's $120 for the online. per team. With a nice first place prize.

[Epikon]

actually we did all we could to have you DQ but we were forced into playing you guys.

lol ...

Anyways this is getting old, I don't want to be the evil person on trying to bring down PGL. Our team just felt pretty robbed, I'm sure if any of you thought you were supposed to get a prize and didn't you would to, anyways Kyle pmed me. Sorry for pissing so many people off, I had a blast at the tournament before all this and our team was just really bummed about this. Not sure if we will attend stoon or not seeing as I feel like a bad person now.

[PGL]

lol ...

Anyways this is getting old, I don't want to be the evil person on trying to bring down PGL. Our team just felt pretty robbed, I'm sure if any of you thought you were supposed to get a prize and didn't you would to, anyways Kyle pmed me. Sorry for pissing so many people off, I had a blast at the tournament before all this and our team was just really bummed about this. Not sure if we will attend stoon or not seeing as I feel like a bad person now.

not a big deal, these things happen sometimes and we just have to be more careful with some minor details and try to not overlook anything..... I hope you make the stoon event as you will never have this problem again..... Because the Gentlemans Club will eliminate you anyway lol:D

[SReid]

not a big deal, these things happen sometimes and we just have to be more careful with some minor details and try to not overlook anything..... I hope you make the stoon event as you will never have this problem again..... Because the Gentlemans Club will eliminate you anyway lol:D

ha ha gentlmeans club. your guys shoulg change your name to the little girls club. who elminated you guys anyway? they must of been good. oh ya! it was the button mashers we sweeped you.:D:p

BTW kyle is there anyway i could get the PGL maps and game types.

[PGL]

ha ha gentlmeans club. your guys shoulg change your name to the little girls club. who elminated you guys anyway? they must of been good. oh ya! it was the button mashers we sweeped you.:D:p

BTW kyle is there anyway i could get the PGL maps and game types.

lol yea next time will be different..... we will illegally substitute the royals:D.......

We are making new maps for the next one here so i'll let you know as soon as they are done

[PGL]

i will also close and lock this thread....... it seems i have made epikon happy again....... appreciate the feedback fellas dont want people leaving PGL with a bad taste in their mouths